並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep39-%E7%82%BA%E4%BB%80%E9%BA%BC%E9%9B%9E%E8%9B%8B%E4%B8%80%E7%9B%B4%E5%87%BA%E5%8C%85-%E8%9B%8B%E8%8D%92%E7%9C%9F%E7%9B%B8%E5%A4%A7%E7%99%BD-%E4%BE%86%E7%9C%8B%E8%9B%8B%E9%9B%9E%E7%94%A2%E6%A5%AD%E7%9A%84%E9%AB%94%E6%AA%A2%E5%A0%B1%E5%91%8A/id1557404661?i=1000552330365